PPC Connectors - Are You Having Troubles With These Passing PIM?

Discussion in 'The PIM Corner' started by Kelley Woodard, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. Kelley Woodard

    Kelley Woodard Friend of the Community

    Can anyone out there provide me with any information on the experience you are having with PPC connectors passing PIM at 150dB? Are you having success with these new compression connectors or are you finding more fail than pass? I am doing some research on these and am very curious to receive feedback regarding this specific product. Any information and specifically detailed information would be greatly appreciated. If you have results you would like to share with me, that would be great too. Thanks!
  2. dirt  reynolds

    dirt reynolds Friend of the Community

    Yea, I have been using them for the past 9 months down in the southern California market for the LTE project. I've found after trial and error that there are a few tricks to make them a little cleaner. Example: on the 7/8 and 1 5/8 after drilling the coax and when you are getting ready to cut with the tool in the valley, most people take it off the drill and turn it by hand. I have been using the drill to do it. Just drop the blade in the valley and hit the trigger for a few seconds.

    I have noticed that it makes the end a lot cleaner and less chance of screwing up. As far as the PIM gear passing them or failing them, that's a whole other can of worms. It just depends if they used the right slot machine parts in the gear, ha joke... but yea, I've had connectors that were passing with flying colors on the Anritsu and the HP but couldn't get them to pass with th PIM gear. Not sure if that really helps you but hopefully it does. in my opinion its more on the PIM gear then the connector.
  3. Chris Rhees

    Chris Rhees Friend of the Community

    We have also had some issues. The biggest is when I connect it to a radio sometimes the connection end will just pop off. 1/4 turn or less . Maybe this is a safety feature I dunno. I do not recall them saying anything about it in the training i received.
  4. MrDBAKE

    MrDBAKE Friend of the Community

    Yes. We have been primarily using 1/2" male and female DIN connectors to make jumpers. When we PIM test the jumpers usually one end fails. Sometimes re-seating the connector on the load or test cable helps. We also have found that getting a somewhat erratic but passing reading will lead to problems later when sweeping the system RL. If it is not perfect, junk it. Prepping the cable is crucial. Right from how you first cut the cable. But sometimes that doesn't help. We have also had problems with "opens" on PIM testing where the reading doesn't even move no matter how much you stress the connector. ALWAYS use a torque wrench. If you over tighten the connector you will ruin it. Also, if you PIM the system and it fails, re-seating the connectors two or three times can help. Don't take the connector all the way off. Just back it off a half turn or so then re-tighten.
  5. John Tressler

    John Tressler Friend of the Community

    I work out of the New England area and have been putting on PPC connectors for over a year and have no issues. We are turning up a lot of LTE sites and all is going well with PPC connectors. I have heard a lot of this before and don't understand it. I also heard that PPC will be having training where they will have a pass/fail for contractors and forward the results to Verizon and Clearwire. Anyone else hear this. I have 3 techs going for training in 3 weeks.
  6. MrDBAKE

    MrDBAKE Friend of the Community

    I've noticed that when testing PPC on the 700 frequencies PIM is more forgiving.

    Where testing on the 1900 frequencies finds/creates more problems. Most of the time PPC connectors have no problem passing a "static" test but trying to get them to pass "dynamic" testing can be a bear.

    I've seen a solid -160dBc reading go haywire when the connector is slightly tapped with the rubber end of my wrench and peak at -130dBc. I found that once you've located the connector with the PIM issue, you can find where the problem lies in it by tapping all around and watching where the numbers move the most.

    Once the problem area is located I give the connector a good smack with the metal end of my wrench. I can usually save nine out of ten 1/2" connectors this way. My belief is that this "settles" in the crimp and seats it.

    You can do the same with 1 5/8" but it is not as successful. Sometimes on the 1 5/8" if you re-crimp the connector a few times it will pass. I will crimp it then move the tool a 1/4 turn then crimp again and then once more. I know PPC techs will have a heart attack if they read this but these connectors are too expensive to just give up on and cut off.
  7. 1towerman

    1towerman Friend of the Community

    We did several sites in the Arkansa market on the 700 band and had no problems. We were using the Summitek PIM gear. Also it helps alot (regardless of brand of connector, PPC, Andrew, etc...) to clean everything with alchohol and q-tips, then blow clean with can air.
  8. connectorguru

    connectorguru Friend of the Community

    Your question was not specific to a connector type. PPC trained techs know that a Sharpie is used to mark the cable jacket to insure connector is fully inserted before compression. They also know that Compressed air , alcohol wipes , and center conductor cleaner (Gator tool or white Scotch-brite) needs to be used. If failing dynamic test, most likely was not cleaned properly or installed correctly. Also be aware that the PIM test cables, loads and adapters must be clean and tight and in good shape. Very important to check the PIM gear, Loads, Adapters, Cables as well as the PIM source to insure the unit is reading correctly. I have used PPC connectors now for 5 years, and have great PIM and RL results. Anyone on here wants to get average PIM of -160dbc and Avg RL of -35 should ask me. Specify which connector type when asking the question. Remember not to torque to your test equipment, pull the blue o-ring out and go hand tight then snug to test. Using full torque to your PIM load and port will stress the threads and not only wear them out, but also give you unstable readings. Always use a test cable on the unit and tap at the connector away from the PIM unit port. Tapping directly at the units can cause erratic PIM readings.
  9. connectorguru

    connectorguru Friend of the Community

    They are doing Advance Training Classes now, where they have you bring your tools and test gear, or if you dont have test gear they provide it. its a written test and you have to make jumpers that pim at min of -150dbc and -25RL. They say you have to have had basic ppc training prior to the Advanced. Its a very good class and anyone who uses these connectors should take it. its free and they provide the connectors for it. Very practical hands on stuff, ive never heard of anyone who failed it.
  10. connectorguru

    connectorguru Friend of the Community

    I know of this. it was the N style connectors, nuts came off. they fixed that last year with a steel retaining clip instead of the softer brass ones they use to use, they dont come off anymore., we asked during training about it.
  11. DAS_PM

    DAS_PM Friend of the Community

    I have read your thread and it is very interesting, I just want to confirm that you gents are working CELL sites. I work DAS and it is looking like these test will be required in the future.
    The problem is a large DAS can have thousands of connectors and passive components, my guess is PIM testing could turn into a nightmare.

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